Little Hands, Big Plans - Motherhood and Business

Building a Criminal Defense Law Practice Part-Time and Homeschooling with Enje Daniels

• Emilia Coto • Season 1 • Episode 24

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The interview features Enje Daniels, a criminal defense lawyer, business owner, homeschool mom, and mother of three, to talk about what it really looks like to build a part-time criminal defense practice while homeschooling.

Enje shares her journey from traditional civil litigation to criminal defense, why becoming a mother reshaped her relationship with work, and how she intentionally downshifted her practice to prioritize family, faith, and flexibility. She opens up about leaving employment, starting her own firm, setting boundaries in a demanding practice area, and tripling her income while working fewer hours.

This conversation also explores homeschooling in the early years, teaching children a second language through immersion, and why Enje chose to slow down during the season of raising littles. She discusses how she structured a “quasi maternity leave” as a self-employed lawyer, diversified her income through photography, and designed her practice to work around motherhood rather than compete with it.

Throughout the episode, Enje reflects on how faith has guided her decisions, the importance of listening to internal nudges, and why success in this season looks different than it did before children.

This episode is for lawyers, entrepreneurs, and working mothers who are asking:

  • Is it possible to run a law practice part-time?
  • Can I homeschool while still contributing financially?
  • How do I build a business that supports family life instead of overwhelming it?
  • What does it look like to design work around motherhood and faith?

If you are navigating career shifts, entrepreneurship, homeschooling, or redefining success in the early years of motherhood, this episode offers encouragement, practical insight, and permission to build differently.

If this episode resonated with you, please share it with another mom who needs encouragement. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and connect with me on LinkedIn.

For other episodes and resources, visit our website at https://littlehandsbigplans.co/pages/podcast

SPEAKER_01:

Today's conversation is with Angie Daniels. Angie is a criminal defense lawyer. She's a business owner, a homeschool mom, and a mama of three. In our conversation, she shares about how becoming a mother completely reshaped her relationship with work. She manages a criminal defense practice part-time, and she also talks about how faith has guided her decisions through every season. We're going to talk about listening to inner nudges, redefining success during the little years of homeschooling. And if you have been thinking about starting a law practice, a criminal defense firm, or a photography business, and still being very present for your family, this conversation is for you. Welcome to Little Hands Big Plans, the podcast for moms who want to reimagine work after kids and build a life where family comes first without giving up your dreams. I'm Amelia, and I know firsthand how much motherhood shifts our careers, our priorities, and our pace. But instead of seeing it as a setback, what if we saw it as an invitation? An opportunity to design a life with a little more freedom, a little more presence, and a little more fulfillment. Each week, we'll have honest conversations with moms who've shaped their work and business around what truly matters. Whether you're considering a career pivot, dreaming of a slower pace, or just wondering what's possible, you're in the right place. So grab a little something warm, settle in, and let's explore the possibilities together. So for those who might not know you, can you tell me a little bit more about the stages of parenthood that you're in? So how old are your little? And a little bit about what your career looked like before kids.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. So I have three little kids. I have a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and a one-year-old. So two years apart. And my career before little ones, I was in civil litigation. I will never forget because I was sitting in an office chair nine to five, just working. And I'll be honest, lacked a lot of joy. But that's all I did. Nine to five, Monday to Friday working. Sometimes would work after hours and would work on weekends if I had to.

SPEAKER_01:

And did you go back to the same job after your first child? What did that look like when you became a mama?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So it was such an interesting journey because when I found out I was pregnant, I was actually thrilled because I hated the job I was at at the time. And I desperately needed an excuse to leave. And I didn't have a direction. And so getting pregnant was just a godsend. Like in all senses of the word, obviously having a child is like such a gift. But then also just the timing was perfect, in my view. And so I went off work and then I had my baby in February of 2020. And everyone will know that in March of 2020, COVID happened. And so by the time my 12 months were up, it was 2021, early 2021, and there was a new kind of COVID wave and hit, and we were kind of in and out of the COVID seasons. And the person I was working with said, work's pretty slow, and I don't think we have a place for you. And at that point, I was completely fine with it because I didn't like working there. But also I thought I was just going to quit law entirely because I had hated it so much and just did not find any sort of joy in it. And I also thought, I have found so much joy in being this little girl's mom. I can't possibly think of going back to a workplace nine to five, and I get to see her for a few hours in the evening. And so I thought, okay, I need to find a different job. Maybe I will do photography full-time, since that was something I had been doing before I uh was called to the bar. And so that was an option. And so I was just thinking through what my next steps would be. And it did not ever occur to me that I could be a lawyer and not work full-time. So then what did you decide to do after that job? So I thought to myself, okay, so there's a lot of opportunities out there. And I paused. I wasn't in a rush. I really felt that like being a mom helped me slow down for a second and take a deep breath. And there was like another human that I had to consider. And it was honestly just super serendipitous that I ran into a friend. He's about 10 years my senior. And I told him, I'm done with law. Being a lawyer is so boring. And he said, Well, why don't you come work for me? He was in criminal defense. And I said to him, Well, I have no experience in criminal defense. Like, I don't know what I would be doing. And he's like, Don't worry, you're quick on your feet, you'll figure it out. He had a lot of confidence in me. And I think about him often because his confidence in me really did boost my belief in myself. And he said, And you know what? You can work part-time. And that is non-existent in the legal world. There is no profession or there's no law firm that will say you can work for us part-time. And even working part-time is it's not exactly the way other jobs would work. It's part-time of a full, very, very, very full-time job. So I was really excited to try something new, really excited that he was giving me the opportunity not to be full-time. And because of COVID, which ended up being a blessing because a lot of legal things that were usually in person became online. And so suddenly I could be an employee, I could work for a law firm and stay at home. So that was huge. That's amazing. So I started too. Exactly. Because I wasn't gonna go out on my own without knowing anything. And I wasn't even gonna go. Like I said, I was gonna turn my back on law. That was cool. At least I tried it and I was gonna move on.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. And so then you worked part-time after your maternity leave until you got pregnant with baby two?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So so I started working for him in 2021. My daughter went to daycare for two days a week, and those were the days I would primarily work, and I had to work a lot. And every part of my day had to be scheduled. So I was working mornings before she woke up, I was working the day she was in daycare, and I was working right after bedtime. So every block of my day had something in it. And then in 2022, I had my second in May, and I really felt a lot of pressure to be at work because I thought if I take another break, like I'm never gonna get anywhere. And I also felt a lot of pressure because even though my boss was very understanding, I still felt this pressure to go back to work and that I was a burden on the firm by taking Matt leave. And so I took six months and my husband took six months. We took it at the exact same time and spent some more time together as a family. But after the six months, I had to go back to work. And so now I had toddler who was in daycare two days a week. I had a six-month-old baby who I had to then hire someone to come and stay with him while I was working. And um, I was only six months postponed. And it was so hard. And I really regret that season of my life because I remember working upstairs and then I would go downstairs to just like peek and and say hi to him and get like a little snuggle in. And I just remember feeling like I'm supposed to be down here playing with him and not this, you know, she was wonderful, and I really, really trusted her with him. The help that I did get from her, but I just felt like it was supposed to be me. And I still carry that actually to this day, and I'm still working through that.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. I definitely relate with that feeling of even if it's almost like it's self-imposed, but it is realistically, you know, when you have a whole full caseload or however amount of caseload, even if if you're not there, it's still you realize that it's going to someone else and that accommodation feels tough.

SPEAKER_00:

It it was a lot of things. Like I think a lot of it was in my head too, but it's that perception of society, like not only what society expects me to do, like, okay, you took your Mat leave, go back to work, your kid goes to daycare. That's what you're supposed to do. But also like the field of work, like in law, the stories you hear is, oh, I just had my baby and I uh two weeks later I started this big trial. And I remember hearing women say that, and I could not understand why they were doing that. And I just felt like, okay, if they're doing it, then I'm is this what I'm supposed to do? Is this the only way that I'm gonna fit in this world? But it never felt right to me.

SPEAKER_01:

And at what point did you choose self-employment from there? Did you continue to push through it or did you go back?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I stayed with the firm for a bit. So I would have had him in May of 2022, and then I went back to work in November of 2022, part-time again, and I worked, and I just thought, okay, you know what? If I'm gonna work this hard, I want to know. I know what I'm giving up, but I want to know what I'm giving it up for. And so I started to just really ask questions like the time I'm putting in and what I'm getting at the end of the day, paycheck-wise, is not adding up for me, and it's not worth it for me to make at this point. It it was maybe$35,000, and that didn't make sense to me. I was making$35,000 working part-time, I was not making what I wanted, and I wasn't doing what I wanted. So I'm not with my kids and I'm not making any the money that I think it would be worth it. So I started asking, we started having conversations at work about what it would what it would mean for me to be full-time, what pay would look like. Would I move? Like, I didn't want to be an associate forever. I wanted to move up, I wanted to be part of the decision making. I had great good ideas, I had places I wanted to go. And so when I felt like those conversations kind of landed on deaf ears, I thought, okay, I need to reframe and restructure. And the day that I decided I was not going to go back and work for someone was it was just a decision and I was never going back. I was never gonna change my mind. So I called my boss and I said, I'm not thriving. This is my two-week notice. And from there, I just started calling up people. I would run into people at the course house and I'd say, Hey, you're a sole practitioner. Can I grab coffee with you? And I did that with four or five. I was doing market research essentially. I needed to know how they started. They were also very young. They figured it out, and I said, if they could figure it out, I can figure it out. And so it was, you know, I gave my two weeks' notice and I started my own practice right away, and it was the best decision I had ever made in my life. I have never, ever, ever, ever doubted that decision.

SPEAKER_01:

And how did that change the hours that you were putting in as you were starting your own firm?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a great question. It it wasn't just the hours it changed, and I I'll explain a lot of that, but it was the type of work I was getting to do and the boundaries that I had. So, criminal defense, if you're in another firm, a lot of firms are essentially your phone is 24-7 because someone's being arrested and someone needs bail. And if they call you, you have to pick up. And I hated that feeling. I wanted to be able to shut it off when it was time to focus on my family. And so one of the things was my phone setup is that after 5 p.m., it will not ring, it will go right to voicemail. And so if I'm working later in the evening and I do see a voicemail, I can choose to respond to that if I want to, or I can wait till the next day. And I made sure that any client that hired me understood that and I prepared an entire document that was, you know, a what to expect so that my clients would know, I'm gonna work hard on your file, but I'm not gonna be doing it all hours of the day. It also gave me the flexibility if I wanted to say, you know, end early on a day like three o'clock and spend the, you know, afternoon with my kids, then I could do that and I could go back to work at 8 p.m. And so a lot of my clients know that sometimes I have odd working hours. And maybe we will schedule, you know, a Zoom call to talk about their file at 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. And I just worked that into my flexibility to be with them when I needed to be with them, especially when there were certain activities I wanted to do with them and there was only parts of the day that I could do it. And also I wanted to be there for bedtime. And in order for me to be there for bedtime, I had to work later in the evenings and kind of balance it that way. So my hours changed that way. But what I'll tell you is I was working part-time about 20 hours a week, 20 to 25 hours a week. When I went on my own, same amount of hours, but I tripled my income. And that that was the kind of aha moment that I could frame work around my family and still be a contributor to our household. And and you know, I wanted to take them on vacations. I wanted them to have things that are matter in our family. We really care about health and we really really care about physical activity and we care about the food we eat. Those things required me to still be part of contributing to our family. And I I genuinely do feel a sense of fulfillment in the work I do. But I also feel a fulfillment in being a mother. So I wanted something that would balance both. And so I said, you know, part of it was ours, but the other part of it was the creativity and how I would make that money. So in in criminal defense, I also started working as duty counsel, and we call it per diem, which essentially means I'm not an employee of the duty council, but I take shifts, as many shifts as I want, uh, in a month, and I clock in at 8 or 8:30 and I help people with bail or entering a plea or whatever that might be. And when court closes, that's it. I close it. I don't take any of it home. So I literally start their file that morning and I finish it that afternoon, and that's it. And so there's also a sense of finality in that work that I could go home and I didn't have to think about what I did all day. And then also expanding into something called CCB hearings, which in Ontario, those are essentially hearings for people who have been held in hospital against their will. And so now I'm having that, and so they hold a hearing for that, and those hearings are two hours over Zoom, and then there's prep hours. And so I didn't have to be in a courtroom all day in order to do that work. So having three different avenues of making money in under essentially one umbrella.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so creative, and it's also amazing that you were able to put in those boundaries because I I do get that sense that criminal law is even another level of demanding, like you said, in terms of the availability or the culture that that practice area works, but you still made it work, even though you were still working part-time, your clients knew what to expect and so didn't mind that, right? When you meet the right person that you want to work with, it's okay as long as you're not surprised by it after.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And you know what? I actually think the clients appreciated it because criminal defense can often be high volume of caseload. And so the way that I framed it for my clients was I'm not going to be answering all the time, not because I don't care about your file, but because I care enough not to sort of spread myself so thin that I'm making mistakes on your file, but that I'm very careful, I'm very accurate, and I know every single detail. And so you're getting a premium by hiring me as your counsel because I'm not working on 80 or 100 files. I'm working on 20 or 25 files.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I completely get that. I do the same thing in immigration because immigration is also an area that tends to be ex a lot of firms do very, very high volume. Right. And it does get to a point where sometimes people don't feel that their case they're just one more case in not being managed or or care, they're not there's not a sense of care on the file that's being taken. And yeah. So what happened when you added baby number three in the mix? How did that change?

SPEAKER_00:

That's such a good one. I have to laugh because it is it is difficult. It is very difficult. And in a perfect scenario, I I want to be honest, if I had, you know, a family member living next door, even a family member that was 30 minutes or less away from me, it would be significantly easier. So how did it work? Well, she was born towards the end of 2024. And at that point, I had run several jury trials, and I was trying to sort of wind down my practice for a period because I knew I needed that. My body needed to rest, my family needed me, this baby was gonna need me. And so uh I did have I had a really good net network of colleagues, other lawyers, criminal defense, sole practitioners, and they took some of the files on for me. Now, of course, not everyone's gonna take all of the files, so I did have a few left. And so what I did was I was really honest with my clients. I'm about to have a baby. I do not want to do any trial work for you know the set period of time. You're welcome to find other counsel. I can direct you towards other options, or if you want to keep me as your counsel, we're just gonna have to set your trial in the future. And most uh actually all of them were fine with that. They said, No, I I want to keep you on. So what I did was I pushed anything that was gonna be more than a day, I pushed it to after the year mark. And anything else that would only be a day. So, what I mean by a day is it wasn't back to back court. I set them with huge chunks in between. So I had a trial one day January, there was another day in February, I had some. Something else in May, uh, something else one day in June, one day in July, sort of spreading it out. And I, the way it was scheduled was I am just not available for this time. I'm available at this time. And I really gave myself that space. And in between, those is where I filled in duty counsel. And it's also where I filled in those CCB hearings, the consent and capacity board hearings. And so that sort of floated the cost. I said, how much will it cost me to stay open every month? And the nice thing about criminal defense is it is a very low threshold. So I knew that I could cover my costs. And then I said to myself, and how much more do I need to make for it to be worth it? And once I hit that number, anything after was just bonus. Any funds I made after was this is great. And then I supplemented that with uh, you know, the side hustle, the photography, which had is all word of mouth. Both criminal law and photography, they are all word of mouth. And so there's no marketing or advertising or anything I had to run in the background. It was people telling others about my work and getting referred. And so I would say I averaged four days a month uh while I was on what I called my quasi-mat leave, because when you're self-employed, you don't really get a MAT leave. And uh those four days a month were were when I would work. And so I would either have uh, you know, someone stay with the kids, or my husband did end up taking a PAT leave for some months. And so while he was on PAT leave, I worked a lot of that time as well.

SPEAKER_01:

And how did you find because now you've been able to compare fully having a maternity leave when you were employed, then having a a short maternity leave. And now this was different because you're working less, but you're not having that full time. Yeah, very different. What was preferable for you? I'm just thinking for someone that might be hearing this and planning for their first maternity leave, you know, is it maybe better to be employed at least so that you can fully disconnect and then maybe not go back or yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the first time around being employed and having Matt leave, I think that's what I needed because I had never had a baby before and I didn't know what to expect. And it was a great opportunity for me to really reflect on why I was doing things and who I was doing them for. And really, when you have a baby, it can it it makes it forces you to think about that. So if it were my first baby, I I don't I wouldn't say I would change that, but if I'm already self-employed and now I'm having my first baby, the balance of working a little bit and also having a lot of time off. So what I said, like the quasi-mat leave with the third baby, that was my ideal situation. So the second was awful. Doing six months that and and then going back into work, that was not great for me. Yeah. But working about a quarter, so if we say part-time is half, working a a quarter of that time, and then having a lot of time off in between or setting myself up where I knew I was only gonna work about four days a month, like I told you, that was great. It gave me the opportunity to jump back into something that I love doing because, like I said, I'm I I do love criminal defense, but also still having my family as my top priority.

SPEAKER_01:

What now that you know you're approaching the one year mark, or I think you your your baby just recently turned one, right? Yes, that's right. What are you hoping for now that you're getting to plan the next year as an example?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So it dawned on me that because I'm self-employed, I really have nobody to answer to. I don't have to go from four days a month to, you know, two to three days a week. I don't need to do that. And I realized I really loved watching my children grow. And so I had decided actually in June of this year, or right before that I would start homeschooling. And I don't have a plan. Like I people say, How long are you gonna homeschool for? Will you homeschool forever? And I always say, I don't know. But I committed to the first year, and part of my commitment was I also wanted to teach them a second language. And so everything I had read required immersion into that language, and I knew that they wouldn't be able to do that if they were going to English school. So I pulled both my older two out of daycare in uh the beginning of June, and I decided that my youngest was not going to go to daycare, at least not before turning uh at least two and a half or three years old. And then maybe I would consider a part-time daycare. Ideally, having someone come in the home once a week would be what I would want. But again, that's really hard to find as well. So, what does that mean for me? It means that my quasi-mat leave will essentially extend until my at least three years old. And then from there, I would want to re-evaluate. And I I learned a lot about working at at different times and in different ways, like I had explained. And so right now, what my weeks or months might look like is I might have something one week, nothing for two weeks, maybe something, maybe two things on a week, and then I'll have a photo shoot maybe every other weekend, and maybe some months I won't have a photo shoot at all. But like I said, I know how much I need to make to cover my costs. And so some months I'm covering two months worth of work. And so it it's kind of okay if there's months where I don't work at all. And that's kind of where I'm going with it now. And at first I was feeling really discouraged, I'm not gonna lie to you, because I thought teaching them another language is so hard. And homeschooling kids that are in totally different stages is so hard. But my three-year-old is doing a fantastic job responding to me in Arabic. That's the language I'm teaching them, and it just feels like a breakthrough, Amelia. Like, what I'm not out to lunch, my ideas aren't crazy, and these kids are actually learning something.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's I love how you've been so taking it year by year, because I think that's when it gets daunting when you try to think about okay, I'm going snail pace. What's gonna happen? Can I keep going snail pace forever? What's gonna happen? But I think if you just focus how you're doing it, then it makes it seem way less daunting than having to plan if you're gonna homeschool from now till high school. Oh, for sure. The other thing is because you know how you said about the the answering the phones. So are you still answering fully? Like how does that how does the new client intake work? Or because most of your clients come referral-based, you can schedule calls.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so there are a few things. If someone calls me, I can pick up that phone, take down their number, and say, I'm gonna call you back. I'm unavailable right now, I'm gonna call you back. So I can schedule that in right away without taking too much time on the phone to figure out what's going on. Like usually I do have a few questions. Uh, you know, what kind of uh lawyer are you looking for? If they're gonna say, you know, I'm looking for a family lawyer, then at least I can divert that. I'm sorry, I don't do that work, you know, moving on. If they're looking for a criminal defense lawyer, next question is which city? Because if it's out in Ottawa, then I'm, you know, I can turn that down really quickly. So if they're saying it's in, you know, Hamilton or Brampton or something like that's closer by, okay, now they've passed the second sort of checklist. And then my third, which I sh I didn't really mention this, but I used to take legal aid and private files. But because I am only working a quarter of the time, I've had to decline all brand new like coming-in legal aid files. Not because I don't want to do them or don't think that work is valuable, but because in order for my time that I'm working to actually make sense for my family, I need to only take private files. So those three questions, if I get criminal, you know, within the Hamilton GTA area and it's a private file, I take their number, I call them back, or they can text me. Sometimes I'll ask them to just text me their email and I can email them back. We can schedule a call. And so that's the best way for me to do intake. Sometimes I'm not able to get to the call. They can leave a voicemail. That voicemail gets emailed right to my email so I can check that when I am working. And so that kind of helps filter some uh some of that. And I do get random calls, and so it's nice to not have to answer those calls and just know later, okay, this was kind of a, you know, a scam call or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. For homeschooling, you mentioned that having them fully learn a second language and being bilingual was very important to your family culture. Do you think now that you've started homeschooling, once they are bilingual and you can tell they're bilingual, you're gonna continue wanting to homeschool? Or was that the primary goal or the primary thing that you wanted to accomplish?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a great question. Because my husband doesn't speak the language, I feel like homeschooling and every family defines it differently. It will be a part of our family forever in some way, um, in order for them to maintain that bilingualism. But uh what I will say is there was a few factors that led me to homeschool in the first place. One was look teaching them the language, which I had hoped I had I would have started when they were infants, but I didn't. And so I thought, well, here's the third, we can start now. Two was I really care about my family's unity. And I felt that if my two oldest were in school when I had my third, they would never get that genuine bonding time. And so I wanted them to have the opportunity to bond and play with each other. And I even see my oldest right now. She helps put the baby um down for a nap. She's really good at helping with prepping snacks before we go out. She's just learned a lot of responsibility that would not have happened if she was not at home watching the things that I was doing. And then the third was just the time. Like I said, with my second, I felt that guilt of not being with him enough. And I also saw how he despised, he hated daycare. People say, you know, they'll get used to it in two weeks. He never got used to it. He always hated it and always cried, and I always felt this isn't right. And I just did not listen to myself. And then I finally listened to myself. I pulled him out of daycare. And let me tell you, Amelia, his personality is night and day. He has become a much happier kid, and we've worked a lot on managing emotions and managing, you know, how he's feeling and those things. And I'm so happy that I listened and did what I felt was best for him. And so there's like a lot of things that kind of come into it. So if they learn the language, sorry that was a little long-winded. If they do learn the language, I wouldn't be opposed to them going to a physical school. But would I change my mind maybe after a year? I definitely could. And I want to listen to my kids' needs as well. If I see that they're not thriving or they feel like they don't want to, uh, or they're not enjoying or thriving in school, then I'll listen to that as well. Because I do think there is something so valuable about them not being in an institution all day long and them actually being able to enjoy the things that they're interested in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Childhood is so short. And the other thing that really stood out for me is that I think with when when you ha when you're a working mom and you are also trying to be really present for kids, a lot of times when I feel guilt or just some that feeling that I don't know if I'm taking on too much or saying yes to too many things, I think a lot of times, sometimes the response is to try to, oh, it's okay, you're doing a good job. But I think what stood out for me in your response and what I think is also really important is to listen. Like maybe that guilt is nudging from your kids, from the Lord also. Like maybe it's not just a bad thing to feel guilty and to try to just push it away, but also to listen to to them because yes, my oldest one for sure, I think would have struggled hardcore in daycare. And it was a it was a decision that we struggled with a lot as well. And I just feel very happy that I didn't push through it because yeah, just each kid is gonna be different, you know. I my second one I feel like is super would be totally fine if she had to go.

SPEAKER_00:

But sorry, if I could add, you mentioned something important, you know, the nudging, a nudging from God. And and one thing that I will say is if I want them to grow to know uh Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and I want them to grow in those, you know, fruits of the spirit, then I also have to model that for them. But if they're not with me, I can't model that for them. I'm always surprised at how much they absorb, especially seeing my oldest, how much she absorbs from us. So we actually have like a pom-pom system, and they based on a number of factors. So one of the factors is speaking Arabic, one of them is, you know, doing kind or loving things or helping out, they're rewarded with pom-poms, and then they can take these pom-poms and use them to purchase something from the dollar store. And so today was pom-pom store day, and they went to go pick something from the dollar store. And my oldest picked something out, and I was a little surprised at what she picked because it's something she wouldn't normally want. It was a chocolate bar that I know my husband likes. Well, I found out after I paid that she was using her pom-poms to purchase this chocolate bar as a Christmas gift for my husband. Wow. Yeah, and I just thought, man, I would not get to see this if they were in school all day because it would be school, home, dinner, like we wouldn't not have time to, you know, make a leisurely trip to the dollar store. And and so that's something that I really think is important. If these are the if my children are who I am responsible for caring for, getting to help them grow in godliness and grow in love for each other, I definitely feel the difference when I'm with them more often. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I I really like that you brought up your faith and how central that has also been because I I that's another huge benefit and reason too while why as a family we also feel called to homeschool is just getting to be that primary influence into their daily faith, their daily like spiritual nurturing. For sure. And I'm wondering if you could share some uh rhythms or uh things that you've incorporated into your uh like homeschooling with three. Do you have set aside time or do you kind of leave it into everything that you're doing?

SPEAKER_00:

In terms of relating to faith specifically. Yeah. So I printed this little and laminated because when you're when you homeschool, you love printing laminating. And it's this little like sandwich prayer thing. And so it has like two pieces of bread. And so what we'll do, sometimes we're able to do it every morning, sometimes it's a few times a week, but it has little prompts, and we say those prompts and we create a sandwich of like a prayer that we're doing. And then on Wednesdays and Thursdays, we do a homeschool group, and those are actually specifically faith-based groups, and so they learn scripture and they memorize the scripture, and then they practice that scripture and they get to win badges, and uh every time they accomplish, you know, a set of scriptures that they've memorized. And so that's part of even part of our school that we're going forward with. And then other than that, it is just also everyday things. We talk about God, we do something called the catechism. We have a book and we'll read that before dinner. And that sort of has the you know, the building blocks of our faith, and we talk about those things and we go through it. And so we have those kind of different routines that we go through.

SPEAKER_01:

That's awesome. I'm so encouraged by everything you're doing related to homeschooling, faith-wise, but also language-wise. I definitely didn't start with my oldest, and now I'm trying to really only speak Spanish with my younger one because I I see how little my oldest speaks it. He understands it pretty good. But I'm like, no, I want this to be, I know it's not gonna be your first language, but I really want it to be close. I want you to be fully bilingual. And so when I hear like you when you were saying that you didn't do it, and now the kids are still picking up on it, I just find that so encouraging because I don't want it to be too late and I I want it to still feel close to a first language, even though I know it's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. You also did extensive traveling recently, so enjoying all those pictures, and it just seems like such precious memories with your family. And so, for someone that hasn't done it, and honestly, the thought of just the travel and the chaos is a little bit daunting for me. What practical tips do you have for planning traveling? Like how many countries, how many days did you do?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, those are great questions. First off, expectations. I I really have to say vacation is not the right word. And you said travel, which is perfect because it it is travel, it is not vacation, and so and I don't mean that in a negative way because I don't want it to sound like you can't relax with children. But the reality is I have really young children and I needed to have the right expectations. And so I had a few friends that traveled in the last year to Japan, they don't have kids, and you know, their activities are gonna be different than ours. And so we started off with that. And I thought, okay, how can my children thrive? If I want to go to a nice coffee shop in Japan, I should not expect that they're gonna sit there across. Their legs, cross their arms, and just wait for me to sip my matcha latte. And so sticker books, coloring books, and this is by far one of the best purchases I've ever made. A YOTO. A YOTO, I don't know if you've heard of them. It's this small little audio device. And essentially, it's not a screen, um, because we are for the most part a screen-free household. And so you get these little cards, you put audiobooks, kids' audiobooks on them. You can even put music on them. They put them in the little player. They have wireless headphones. They don't need the headphones that can play out loud. But obviously, if you're in a coffee shop, you're gonna need headphones. They each have their own player and they can listen to audiobooks to their heart's content. And as a homeschooling mom, it's wonderful because it's literature. We're very picky with the books that they can listen to. So it's literature, and they get to listen to the words, imagine the scene. So they're getting that creativity flowing, and they're just coloring and using sticker books, and it's wonderful. So that was one of the biggest places we started. And then from there, I realized that I would need a longer time in Japan if I wanted to do several activities with them. So, you know, if you're traveling as adults, maybe in one day you end up doing four different activities. For us, it was one activity per day. And if we had the stamina or ability to do more than one, then we could do that. And so that really helped. And then travel strollers, something compact. All our kids could fit in it. We actually had two strollers, so each of us were pushing a stroller and they fold completely down and snacks. You cannot have enough snacks when you're traveling. And then we sort of talked with our kids about sometimes an activity is, you know, an activity for mom, and sometimes it's an activity for them, and sometimes it was an activity for both of us. And the wonderful thing about traveling with kids is that you see things different when you see it through their eyes. And so going to an aquarium, for example, wasn't just going to an aquarium. It was watching a world of imagination open up for them. And so, I mean, that was a very quick run through of some of the things, but those have to be my top things to consider when you're traveling with kids. And also, we only did one country because I thought about doing another country and got a little bit overwhelmed with the thought of getting onto another flight into another country. So we stuck to Japan.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you do nap times on the go, or did you have like several hours of the day that you were pausing for for nap times?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a great question. On the go. On the go. So our littlest, the third, she has not had a structured nap time environment since she was born. And that doesn't mean she doesn't nap. It just means that she naps in the car, she naps in the car seat, she naps on a walk, in the stroller. Sometimes she naps in a carrier. Anywhere she needs to nap, she naps. And so that's sort of what we did.

SPEAKER_01:

That that sounds like you know how they say that third kids are always the most laid back. I think it's because from when they're born, they're constantly just adjusting to whatever's going on. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Because if we were home every time she had to nap, we would never get to do anything. And I have two other kids that like need to get their energy out. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

What are you excited about in this coming season, whether it's related to motherhood, business, homeschooling, faith? Is there any particular dreams that you're holding space for? Yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00:

I foresee in the future as as things come about, just a different structure for our family in terms of having our life a little bit around the family and less around work. And it's kind of slowly unraveled that way. Honestly, Amelia, I try to just take it one season at a time. And the reason I say that is because I don't want to have a dream that I'm focusing on that actually contradicts what I want, but I'm so focused on it because I'm a very goal-oriented person, and to become a task-oriented person is a lot of work for me. And so if I have a goal and it doesn't actually align with my family, I might reach that goal to the detriment of what we actually want. And so in this season, I think the only thing I'm trying to focus or try to think about is different ways that I can work and spend more time with them, especially because in the next year, you know, my husband's not going to have Pat leave again. So he's not going to be able to take that time off for me to work. And after your kid hits one, it gets busy or not less. But I do foresee a maybe expanding into different areas of law that will allow me to have more of that flexibility. As much as I love trial work, I've been talking with others about potentially expanding to immigration or expanding into family things, but not litigation areas. And so I've been talking a lot of with people about that. And yeah, just exploring. I don't think I have a specific direction in the next five years while they're still really small, but I I'm exploring.

SPEAKER_01:

I can completely relate with that. And what an amazing reminder to be present because I'm the exact same way. And I think probably a lot of people in law are the same, like achievement-oriented. Okay, what's next? What can I achieve next? Instead of like, okay, just be present, enjoy these little years because they're gonna go so fast, and the goals and the things are always gonna be there. So a few rapid fire questions. So first answer to your head. Okay, a favorite children's book. Oh, Charlotte's Webb.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, um, mom hack that actually works. So water bottles, even like in the home. I don't have any spilled cups anymore.

SPEAKER_01:

A favorite place in Japan that you traveled with your kids?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, great question. Osaka. No, there's so many. That's so hard. Let's see. Nara Park actually. We got to watch live deer and feed them, which was really cool. Oh, amazing. Wild. Sorry, I said live, I meant wild deer. We got to watch wild deer and feed them at Nara Park, and that was really cool. A little bit scary, but very cool. One thing that you wish more moms knew about slowing down it really requires that you not look outside and look inside. It's ebbs and flows. Some some weeks it's chaos, and some weeks it's it is that slowness that you wanted. And there will always be time to to speed up. And honestly, with with little kids, it's so fast, anyways, that I think slowing down is not even doesn't even do it justice. Because if anything, you're speeding up in different ways.

SPEAKER_01:

And the last one that I have is your favorite way to wind down or relax after a busy day with littles.

SPEAKER_00:

I really love dimming the lights, sometimes grabbing just a tea, sometimes wine. And I have found a lot of joy in uh listening and reading audiobooks, so a cup of tea, listening to an audiobook, and um just relaxing on the couch with my husband. It that's I'd say how I would wind down or at the recommendation. Yeah. Very very simple, but it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Where can others connect with you if they want to get amazing pictures then? And I'm gonna when I share this episode, I'm gonna share some of our engagement pictures because that was such a fun and creative photo shoot. Yes, I think that's why it was memorable because it was so so different. We did it at a fair, so they're really definitely playful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I remember, oh man, that was good. Okay, so connect E N J E Daniels on Instagram. You'll find my photography. I've added a lot of my Japan highlights on there, so you'll find a few there to go through. And you know, I'm not super present on social media consistently, but every once in a while there's a burst of things, and you can find me there.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, Angie. Today's conversation reminded me that if you're in a season of questioning your work, your pace, or your priorities, this conversation is a great one to remember that it's okay to slow down, to listen closely, and to build a life that truly fits your family. The little years matter, and there's more than one way that you can do meaningful work within them. So if you are feeling stuck and want to get off the hamster wheel, I hope that this conversation was encouraging to you. And something that stood out for me from NG's career is that part-time for her did not mean small impact. Engie works very limited hours, but she still does high impact work. She works as a criminal defense lawyer, which has high stakes. But even when she went on her own, she was able to triple her income by setting boundaries, by choosing the right work, and by structuring her practice creatively. She shared so many ideas, so if you're interested or in the criminal defense space, I really hope this is helpful. And time freedom and financial contribution don't have to be opposites. The other thing that stood out from my conversation with her is that the boundaries and clear expectations at the outset with clients was a key piece of connecting with the right people. So she set clear expectations, she protects the hours that she works, and she's able to say no to work that does not fit in this season. She serves fewer clients better while still staying present for her children. The next takeaway that I have is that I noticed that Angie didn't see guilt as a signal to something to be pushed away. When daycare wasn't working for her little, she didn't continue to push through discomfort. Instead, she realized that daycare was not the right fit for her child, and she made a change, a big change in her life because of that. And the last takeaway that I have from our conversation is that you don't have to decide for the next 10 years. You can just plan one year at a time. Homeschooling, business growth, and family rhythms don't require lifelong commitments. Choosing one year at a time creates the freedom to adjust, to pivot, and to respond to your children's needs. If this episode spoke to you, it would mean so much if you shared it with another mom who needs this kind of encouragement. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you want to keep the conversation going, connect with me on LinkedIn. Just search Emilia Koto. That's E M-I-L-I-A-C-O-T-O. Until next time, remember, motherhood isn't the end of your dreams. It's just the beginning.